Cell churches was the way that the Kingdom would come on this earth when we finished the job! But I have been a part of several cell churches and have rarely seen a small group work the way it is intended. For starters the focus on growth, multiplication, raising up new leaders, etc. usually gets in the way or building friendships and community. The timelines to grow and multiply groups is ridiculous. When I was leading, the goal was to multiply a group every six months to a year. How can you possibly even get to really know a person in six months, let alone become friends with someone?
It created a culture in which friendship was only based on an outcome. If you were a leader, you were "friends" with your section leader or zone pastor to usually discuss accountability issues (because you can't experience revival if you are sinning) and to discuss how well your group is going. If you are a lifegrouper, you were sure to be meeting with your "friends" to discuss your sin issues and your plan to spiritually develop so you too could become an intern.
Every leader was on the lookout for their replacement so that they could multiply their group and move on to the next stage. Now, I know that consciously everyone was not thinking about growth on a weekly basis, but the push for growth made this the underlying current for relationships.
The culture was one of personal meeting after personal meeting. You weren't really friends with anyone because you didn't have time to be. You had to get your lunch with your mission trip team leader and your breakfast with your discipleship group and your afternoon coffee with your intern and your hour at the prayer room. You knew people's sin and what they confessed was holding them back from experiencing more of Jesus, but you didn't have time to really experience life with anyone.
It is telling that the leaders at Antioch don't have friends outside of the leadership at Antioch! They don't have time. The husbands meet in accountability groups. The wives do some of the same. They hear a lot what is going on, but they don't experience any of this together. Their life goes from one hour meeting to the next thinking it is relationship, but it is an illusion of friendship.
From my time at ACC, I am really friends with my former roommates and some people that shared similar interests. Very few of them were ever in my lifegroup.
One of my biggest regrets in life is that I have only one remaining friend from college, largely due to what you are describing. At one point, I calculated the hours I spent on my leadership responsibilities - and it was 30 hours or more per week! This on top of working part-time and taking 16 hours. I was so sincere and I so believed that all those hours of relationship building meant something, would mean something. And all I have to show for it is one friend -and we were never in an accountability group or discipleship group or anything. We were just plain old friends. The people from my discipleship groups? Never had time for me once we'd all moved on and up. One eventually became a zone pastor and after a long period of not returning calls actually emailed to ask for a schedule of all my open two-hour time slots in the next two weeks. I helped pick out her engagement ring for goodness' sake and all I meant to her was a slot in her daytimer. How sad.
ReplyDeleteThe author of the former dissident blog After Leaving Antioch made this same observation regarding the huge time commitment required of Antioch leaders.
DeleteThere tends to be a large time commitment even at the lowest rank of Lifegroup Leader; although that said, when I was there, dedicated Lifegroup members likewise put in a good number of hours: Lifegroup; Early Morning Prayer; discipleship time; two services a week, each lasting about 1.5 hours, I think. Stuff like that. Oh yeah, and of course reading the Bible for about an hour first thing in the morning. This was in addition to special activities like mission training sessions, mission trips and Lifegroup retreats -- and getting lunch after church on Sunday. And then, some folks participated in Discipleship House activities on top of all this -- while being full-time Baylor students.
Fewer of us were able to complete BS degrees at Baylor in part because of the time commitment conflict between Antioch and the study and lab time requirements for a BS degree. In my experience and observation, it was not uncommon for Antioch Baylor students to deliberately choose or switch to easier degrees, so as to be able to prioritize church activities over academics.
In my experience and observation when I was with Antioch-Waco (2000-2005), the pyramidal leadership structure stemming from the cell group and mentoring / discipleship-based church growth model used in the Antioch Movement tended to render our friendships short-lived, both due to time commitment and leadership ranking issues. Whether or not you ended up a leader was actually irrelevant: as time went on, everyone ended up unlikely to remain with their original friends. That was simply a by-product of the discipleship and cell group church growth model used by Antioch.
From the perspective of social psychology, Antioch's church growth model is somewhat unhealthy, because the model promotes aspects of thought reform, as noted by Dr. Robert Lifton -- including the phenomena of "Doctrine over person" and "Dispensation of existence". When doctrine is promoted over human relationships, then people become expendable for the sake of promoting Antioch's movement and "Vision and Values". This is also why Antioch has become a bit more up-front about her doctrines in more recent years, unlike when I got involved -- and also why, when I checked probably around 2016 or 2017, that Antioch-Waco had in place a doctrine known as the "Principle of Harmony" for seeming to justify silencing and / or excommunicating (more vocal) dissenters.
I think the trick is to keep in mind that Antioch is focused on being a movement. Terms like "love" and "friend" can be used by Antiochers very loosely, sometimes with very little actual commitment involved in truly maintaining the relationships. But, you'd have to realize: Antiochers don't typically have time to invest long-term in relationships. Antioch is about growth: discipleship accountability and growth in numbers. Very little of it has to do with social / relational maturity.
Personally, I would look for better role models and examples when it comes to developing good mediation / negotiation skills and maintaining lifelong friendships. I've found many Antiochers -- not all, but many, if not most -- to be lacking in these areas when legitimate disagreements arise (my opinion). It's not really their fault. It's just how their system operates.
Exactly. I had so many of those conversations with "friends." "I would really like to get together with you. I am so busy though. I don't have any lunches free for the next two months?"
ReplyDeleteOK, two months was extreme, but I did have a former mission-trip friend tell me this after he was a section leader. It stuck in my mind as an example of the very bad fruit that the Antioch culture created. Friendship only revolved around 1 or 2 hour time blocks.
I have those same regrets of coming out of my college experience with not very many true friends. Sad.
I am so glad I have found your blog. My sister, and brother-in-law have been attending Antioch for several years and are in these Life Groups. She has been alienating herself and my nieces from the family. To me Antioch creates this safe bubble for their followers, and to reject anyone from the outside. This so called church ruins families and relationships. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
ReplyDeleteThis church hurts family relationships.
Deletedo you have a church or do you not attend anywhere?
DeleteI accidentally hit send. Anyhow my comment is regarding Matt. 18:15-17. When you take a close look at it and Luke 17 as well note that the defendant in the teaching is decidedly in the wrong to such a degree that everyone sees them having offended the plaintiff and that the plaintiff has a clear issue against the defendant understood by all. The "2-3" brought in in verse 16 are not brought in to "hear a case" but to take the side of the plaintiff. Sw Luke 7 where the teaching involves forgiveness of the defendant. Unless the wrong doer repents he/she is to be ostracized. A careful reading will show that this not a teaching to be used for arriving at a decision as to who is right or wrong.
DeleteMy little brother is attending one in Norman, OK. He goes to OU and the only friends he has and the roommates he lives with are "life-groupers". It breaks my heart and makes me so angry. He hardly ever comes home and has changed his major and plans based on what his pastor tells him. I am so angry with him and the relationship between him and my dad are so strained. I just hope one day he sees the LIES they are telling him and that Jesus' real plans and voice will break through the brain washing. Did your relatives ever break out of it? I noticed that the last post was in 2015.
DeleteI love Antioch! I'm sorry for the way things ended for you, but we've been here 5 years now and love this body of believers. Being part of ACC has changed my life and continues to do so.
ReplyDeleteDear April 12, Glad you love it but there are 100's and more that get shipwrecked at ACC so please don't make the February 5 blogger seem like the only one.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you don't like people to tell you what to do, dig in your business, etc... That's cool, just don't blame people for what you want to do. Be a rebel, its fine just don't waste time blaming others and this church for your own failures and short-falls... We all have them its ok. Your roomates are your friends more because its easier being friends with people that don't talk about things of God, have a few beers, watch sports, tv, etc.. Man if I felt God wanted us to do that then life woule be easier... but thats not what God wants and you know it (either that or you sit around talking about church's like this). Pull yourself up, close this blog and be a Godly man. And I read you suggested for people to not attend chuch after ACC... man thats the biggest lie from the devil you can believe. We are dangerious without Gods people... Don't believe me, think in your mind what it was like when you weren't serving God?? I was doing horrible things and I am sure you have too. Your relationship with God wil never be a "secret thing" and wasn't meant to be. Beleiving that makes you justify this whole thing. if your confused I feel for you but if your intentions are to tear down people, man I hope God helps you soon!
ReplyDelete"Chilled Zealot," you are wrong in so many ways, you have so many misconceptions about ACC, your dissent is fueld so heavily by your experience (while many here rant justly about the negative of trusting an experience) at ACC that I find it very difficult to trust what you have to say. I don't even know where to start, and perhaps it will be a waste of time to do so, but even with a cursory glance of about 1.5-2 hours total time since discovering this blog, it is so easy to see the multiplicity of gross error as well as the un-healed emotion, and feelings that are blamed on something or someone that/who should truly have no responsibility for those emotions. Well, in danger of stumbling onto the very path I see in this blog & wisely desire to avoid, I will end this post. However, it's final words shall be from one of those servants whom Jesus handpicked, who struggled with selfishness, error, bad theology, misdirection, not preaching precept upon precept from the pulpit, lust, addiction, anger, depression, murder...(well, not literally all this, but you get the idea, I pray)...SIN. He said this! WHY would God choose someone from Antioch Communi...OOPS! Sorry! I meant "why would God choose someone with so much sin to speak His powerful, life and world-changing words to the world? Selah. Here it is..."In Him all things consist, all things hold together. In Him we live, move, and have our very being. All things work together for the good of those who love Him, for those who are called according to His good purposes. Git that thar PLANK outta yer eye bifore tryin to git that SPECK outta yer bros eye!
ReplyDeleteReading my post I asked myself, "what path?" That "path" I said I desire to avoid is bitterness and judgement, which is the highway I see forging it's way through this blog, hiding under the pretense of "a place to dialog, heal, vent, (rage, judge) or discuss the pain and life-altering damage inflicted (SELF inflicted) by one's tenure at Antioch Community Church."
DeleteHow about another possibility? Perhaps the path is healing, and the affliction is a specific blend of dissolusionment, fear of the unknown outside of ACC, rejection, and confused understandings about the character of God.It is human nature to attribute human qualities to God, thus family.of origin brokenness, some denominational differences, etc. Maybe some people's comments are too harsh. But remember? Hurt people hurt people? Compassion, Ricky. The bigger question should be this: objectively, what is happening in this specific body of believers that is yielding such a high number of hurt people? Just my two cents.
DeleteYou're proving that the judgment is real, that there is no compassion for how others feel. You are more concerned about your little groups reputation than someone who is actually wounded. You are shutting down another person's feelings because you don't feel that way. You've proven the need for this blog and shown how judgmental some of the groups are. It seems more like a team, then it does a place of worship. How sad. You use so many psychological ploys to attack someone who disagrees with your cult.
DeleteMy wife attends all peoples church in san diego. They promote there school of transformation at a cost of 1900.00 and then a. 10 day mission trip at a cost of 3000.00 it just feels like a buisness model to generate income. And is driving a wedge between my my an I. I dont feel you need a training course that you have to pay for to build your relationship with christ. We live in a world where we have responsibilities and these things take an huge amount ot time and money. Just seemes radical to me. I have a strong bond with the lord and dont feel I need these things if my spiritual bonding. And have no idea what there teaching creditials are.
ReplyDeletei've been attending antioch for two years now.....the first year was "great", I was a typically freshman that fell into the antioch cycle, you know what I mean (welcome week leader introduce you to life group, you attend, you get lunch, you attend EVERY weekly event, then you get discipled), i thought it was awesome, and I felt I was growing....untill summer happened....i found it so difficult to spend time with God and I felt like the most horrible person ever drifting away from God, my life group leader was suppose to keep me accountable but she didn't......then I went through a really difficult time in my life, and NONE of my "life group friends" would support me.....then sophomore year came, I knew I had to cut down some antioch event, cause i had to work and I was taking 17 hours, so I went to life group,church service and sometimes i attended dweeling place....after I had cut back on my antioch activities, I began to see the true color of my "life group" friends....all their talk of "community", "family" "friendship" was diminished....lunch never happened again, i was never notified for random life group hangouts, and I only saw my life group "friends" on thursday. even more, i realized i knew nothing about my life group people and nothing about me....like I can't really describe the hurt and the pain I feel from life group! It's really and it hurts so bad! I've cried, thinking to myself and asking myself why did I waste my time! why did i share some of the deepest things in my life with these people that don't care about me! all they want is for me to be an antioch puppet.....it's funny how they only liked me/ "cared" about me when I over exhausted myself....i don't know if every life group is the same, and I won't bash all life group/antioch memebers....but i know from MY experience with MY life group I've been hurt badly....I don't want any bull crap about "opening your heart and being vulnerable", cuz i've been there and I've done that....I've been on both sides (the super antioch fan, and not so super antioch fan) and I know it hurts.....it sucks to realize that after two years, I have wasted my time.....I have other antioch friends (not in my life group obviously), who are true friends....so i know that not all antioch members are the same.....so if you're in a life group where you feel loved and you feel it works for you stay, enjoy it, but if you're like me who knows what it means to be hurt, then leave and quit wasting your time......not all churches are the same, some have its pros and cons.....make sure the pros over weigh the cons!!!!!
ReplyDeletestay blessed :-)
Thanks for sharing! Sounds very familiar. You are very mature to be able to see it so quickly!
DeleteOh, my heart is like memory foam reading your post...all of the experiences you have described have spung back, bringing up similarly painful memories for me, too. I can objectively affirm that your experiences ARE typical of ACC life groups, be they youth, college, 20s, or family. I was involved in ALL of these levels, leading several different groups. I wish I could make people realize that ACC really is harmful to one's relationship with God. But, like I was, most ACCers are drunk. Drunk on what they BELIEVE is holy wine of the Spirit of God when in reality they are consuming emotional LSD. Google "love bombing" and you will see a horrifyingly similar use of this manipulative tool. I am so very sorry for your pain. However, I am incredibly glad you only attended for two years...your recovery time will be relatively quick, I hope. Blessings to you. Feel free to email anytime you need to vent. Resplendentprism@hotmail.com.
ReplyDeleteOops! The above reply was in response to Anonymous from 4/12. I must have hit the "add comment" link rather than "reply." :)
DeleteIn my experience in 7 plus years, many if not most of the Lifegroups are led by ill equipped people who should not be overseeing people's spiritual growth. Lifegroup leaders have little to no theological or substantial Biblical training and lead from their own passion. Because of this there are many negative consequences on the members of Lifegroups. Instead of growing in you walk with God a person becomes part of a club or "small community" of people who are all grasping for significance. Lifegroups are highly talked about at Antioch and a person's attendance of these groups are commonly linked to leaderships perceived view of an individuals level or closeness with God. The Lifegroup model at Antioch is significantly flawd and if you attend one for an extended period of time you will most likely understand what I mean. You are promised deeper community and friendships but you will never have this promise fulfilled unless you "fit the mold" or unless you are in the "inner circle" of leadership
ReplyDeleteAnon of 9-25-14 / 1:18PM:
DeleteYup. That was my experience.
I didn't realize the extent of this until much later, though.
I got plugged in to my first lifegroup about 15 years ago. I observed and experienced an increasing number of frustrations with the lifegroup model over time as one who did NOT "fit the mold" but tried to. In retrospect, I'm glad that I was under this model for only about 5 years. It didn't work for me or for people like me.
Unfortunately, sometimes the adverse effects can cause or exacerbate a lot of problems for people.
If I were at Baylor these days, I would probably go to another church, maybe Columbus or a Mainline Protestant church -- or skip around a bit. I'd probably make a campus bible study or something low-key as my home base, while focusing on my studies. I was there for academics and a career. I wish I had stayed the course.
In retrospect, that's what I wish I had done. When Antioch doesn't take you because you don't measure up, your future becomes between you and God -- and that can mean that Antioch will disappear from the scene, whether you want her to or not. That's basically what happened to me.
Yeah, I learned about the charismatic gifts and loved the sense of community, and I am thankful for that; but the sense of community isn't healthy or sustainable and promotes a sense of isolation / elitism against others -- even family members and other Christians. I also noticed that we were developing a sense of group think -- in other words, we were losing our personal identities and our critical thinking / reasoning skills. This is unhealthy. For folks who notice this, I advise you to pull back and exercise godly wisdom and discernment.
I'm not sure that the charismatic gifts have been worth the long-term pain and confusion. Given the choice, I'd rather be able to enjoy church than speak in tongues or see miracles happen through prayer. But perhaps the Lord will grant us wounded ones the miracle of healing from the pain of our experiences. It's not a matter of lack of forgiveness -- forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. It's a matter of healing from the pain. Someday I will heal. Someday.
I pray that you can heal in the warmth and love of your personal relationship with Jesus. I pray he wraps you in his arms and holds you tight and helps all the pain you are suffering melt away. God Bless you! <3
DeleteWow, it sounds more like high school cliques than it does church and worshiping our Lord. Be well, God Bless you on your journey.
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