skip to main |
skip to sidebar
Foundations: Revival Theology - Weighed and Found Wanting
I ran across this publication when I was looking at some of the teachings that have influenced Antioch's leadership. The focus on growth, revival, and "intimacy with Jesus" are not new. I have come across several Internet articles regarding the Latter Rain Movement. It appears that this movement founded in the 1940s and 1950s heavily influenced many of the teachings that formed ACC's "theology." The Toronto Blessing (attended by ACC leadership), Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, John Wimber, and many more ascribe to these teachings that the works of man are central to Christ's return. If you have the time, this is worth looking through. I will paste a few interesting sections below. Antioch is steeped in these teachings. The training schools used to teach this and I assume to some extent still do. While not all of these people are on the reading lists, the ideas are so ingrained by now that no one really remembers where they came from. If you do some research on the names and organizations below, you can see how some of these very strange teachings lay at the foundation of Antioch's worldview.
- We are supposedly the ones who are to evolve into a “great end times army that will put God’s enemies under our feet,” we are supposedly the ones to whom God said, “Ask of me and I will give you the heathen for your inheritance.” In short, the church either replaces Christ or “is THE Christ.” Whether the movement calls itself the Latter Rain Movement, the Manifested Sons, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Restorationism, The Faith Movement, or the Third Wave, all have either come to or been based on this erroneous conclusion. The Latter Rain believes that the work of restoration is not over yet.
- They hold that Davidic worship, teaching, ministry, evangelists, and prophets and even apostles in all of their authority are currently being restored. According to a commonly held misunderstanding of Acts 3:21, they teach that Jesus can’t come back even though He wants to because WE haven’t fully “restored all things.”
- Thus, the “Latter Rain” Revival centered around the following themes: Restoration of fivefold ministry (Eph 4) (especially apostles and prophets.) This teaching is crucial because it is this ministry that is supposedly going to unite the church, and perfect the Body of Christ; the restoration of personal prophecy, the impartation of spiritual gifts through laying on of hands; deliverance, healing and baptism of the Spirit through laying on of hands, and the complete unity of the Body of Christ. Denominationalism was seen as “Babylonian Captivity” and subsequently a host of churches affected by the “Latter Rain” broke away from their denominations and became independent churches, many being “set into the body” by the newly discovered apostles. This “revival” which started in Canada, was primarily about Christians “coming into their own fullness,” and not necessarily the conversion of sinners.
- The evolution concept of the church fosters pride and arrogance. Both Rick Joyner and Mike Bickle have said, in effect, that the apostles of the Book of Acts will want to wait in line to interview the superapostles of our day.
- In another more extensive (224 pages) prophecy, Rick Joyner can see the day coming when, "The feet of the body of Christ will carry the credentials for all of those who have gone before them. They will be joined to each other like no other body of people have ever been joined, but they will be also joined to the true believers of all ages who lived and prophesied of this day. As Jesus promised, the things that He did and even greater things will be done in His name, because He went to the Father. His faithful will soon walk in unprecedented power and authority. In the near future, the church will not be looking back at the first century church with envy because of the great exploits of those days, but all will be saying that He certainly did save His best wine for last. The most glorious days in all of history have now come upon us. You who have dreamed of one day being able to talk to Peter, John and Paul are going to be surprised to find that they have been waiting to talk to you!" Do you notice the emphasis on greatness? But who, according to this scenario, is going to be great in those days? Not necessarily Jesus.
I've been going to Antioch for over 9 years and I haven't heard any kind of preaching/teaching of what you just posted. I'm not sure who you follow at ACC or listened to while there, but it wasn't any of the senior leadership. And by that I mean Jimmy, Danny Mulkey, Kevin Johnson, Fred Nelson, Blake Hartsock, Jeff Abshire, Susan Peters, etc etc.
ReplyDeleteThere's a few books in the church bookstore by Rick Joyner and Mike Bickle, however by the church leaders never mentioning anything like what you have posted, it's obvious they aren't into it. Joyner and Bickle do have some good things to say, and they also have some things to say that "I wouldn't have said it like that." So I take the things that are good and don't really pay attention to the stuff that I'm not too sure about, or that I believe to be wrong. Any book apart from the Bible is going to be like that.
In my experience with Antioch-Waco from spring 2000-summer 2005, these teachings were there, just in subtle enough forms that a lot of folks might not spot them right away. I recall Jimmy Seibert actually talking about the Latter Rain and Third Wave Movements in one or more sermons while I was there, and telling us that Antioch had been influenced by these movements (I think).
DeleteAaron, I can understand why you wouldn't see this stuff. It can be quite difficult to spot, until you start to recognize the subtle nuances in what is said and done. Looking back, though, it seems that I'm beginning to recognize quite a bit of it.
As for the "fivefold ministry", our variant was a little different, obviously; but it was nonetheless similar: our leaders waited for some word from God for the selection of new leaders. In other words, they essentially sought to practice prophecy as a part of leadership in the church.
Aaron, even you yourself admit that Joyner and Bickle books have been on the bookshelves at Antioch. Don't think the influence isn't there in at least a subtle way. It is -- or at least has been. I didn't recognize a lot of this for a long while, because I didn't understand what it all was. I had to learn about these movements and their teachings. Then things became clearer to me.
As for a few examples:
Manifest Sons of God: This would be treating leaders as closer to God than other fellow believers, but to the extreme of us standing in the gap in intercession, as high priests in place of Christ. We practiced this when we claimed people groups and nations for God, and in many of our other intercessory prayers. Moreover, though, the Manifest Sons ideology divides Christians into two camps: the Manifest Sons forerunner spiritual types, who will supposedly usher in God's Kingdom for Him, and supposedly carnal Christians, who don't (even though those types may demonstrate love for the Lord and others, and may be trusting God to usher in His own Kingdom in His perfect timing).
Word of Faith: Binding and loosing in our prayers; believing God wants to heal all of us of everything right now; speaking life, but to the extreme of not being allowed to be emotionally honest in fellowship; claiming people groups for God; believing that God only wants to bless us, and that bad things happen only because of demonic interference. We definitely had this mentality.
Dominionism: Believing that we had to be right with God and work to usher in His Kingdom for Him. "Kingdom now" mentality, rather than waiting for the Lord's return. Please, I've been to a couple World Mandate conferences.
Don't tell me this stuff wasn't there. It was -- and was practiced regularly.
I'm really sad to see a blog dedicated to scrutinizing and nit picking the faults of a church. You know all the churches in Waco, if you looked into them with a huge magnify glass would we find faults in them? Would we find mistakes? Is it really so suprising that churches may be imperfect with imperfect people? I think everyone in this fallen world makes mistakes and thats why we just have to keep pressing in and keeping our eyes on Jesus because He is the only one that can shepard us into the righteousness. Im sorry to whoever made this sight if they were hurt by this specific church. But If you love Jesus to, wouldnt the thing to do be to forgive whoever hurt you? He says to love your enemy/bless them. Is the fruit of this sight really motivated out of love, forgiveness, and trying to bless others even if you have felt hurt by them? If you don't like antioch then God will put you into a loving church family, and no one is forcing you to go to Antioch, but if people experience God there and find loving community then who are we to tell them that their church is horrible and false and that they should go somewhere else? I just don't understand what the motivation of this sight is like how it is coming from a place of love, out of a place of healing, and blessing others even if you dont agree with the way they do things?
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to understand our motivation, Emma. Yes, I have been hurt by Antioch. I speak up, because other people are continuing to get hurt, and those guilty of the harm -- leadership and otherwise -- have so far refused to repent.
DeleteThere are scriptural precedents for standing up to abusive leadership, standing up for justice for the oppressed, and working out our differences. Chilled Zealot and I run blogs like this, because we tried working things out within Antioch, and we were silenced, bullied, abused and / or excommunicated. This is not normal, imperfect church behavior. This is more sinister and needs to be addressed, for the sake of those affected.
In the New Testament, false teachers sometimes harmed church congregations. It was up to the members of the congregation to check teachings for error and to stand up to false teaching. That's what this blog and my own are about. I'm sorry if that offends you.
Emma, It actually is not a 'blog dedicated to scrutinizing and nit picking the faults of a church.' Most of us understand we, the church, are not perfect and anywhere we go we bring ourselves. It is about a place where these things can not be talked about. Please read zealots opening comments...we hate something...but we love the people and the worship. And its pervasive and subtle. It is about submission where God has given liberty. Its about having one way to do things and being left out of using your gifts in your own church body because of this. And we must go here to this blog because we are not supposed to talk about it at church (shh only with your discipler) There are acceptable things to say and not say but I am not taking about scripture. Its about being so submissive that you don't have a thinking self. The problem is...all our friends and lives were rooted in Antioch, we have learned to distrust other Chritians and deep friendships take time. We are throwing off the 'don't talk, don't trust, don't think' for yourselves and coming out about what happened to us. Please don't scrutinize us. We know something is wrong and we need to talk about it...we probably care more about your health..love you than you do us (because we are the enemy that dares to think a different thought) but there is nothing wrong with talking for understanding or in sharing honest hurt and confusion about what happened to us. Let us be.
ReplyDeleteI am admiring the honesty I am hearing in this post. I thank God for discerning minds that ask the hard questions and bring up spiritual concerns…I pray for more people like you to rise up, having taken the time to study the issues from God’s word.
ReplyDeleteThe ministry of discernment is sadly lacking in an age warned against by our Lord prophesying the coming false Christ and teachers. The Apostle Paul said “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching…. and then “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” This is the age severely warned against, and the church does not need mindless people who refuse to ask questions and seek biblical answers with painstaking diligence.
I don’t go to this church, but my daughter went there a week ago to check it out and being a discerning father I am committed to going thru their audio messages to spiritually evaluate how safe this church is. You see I spent 23 years in bible based Charismatic cults before breaking free in the late 90’s. I was a group leader for 10 years in a evil, deceived, controlling, growing, but friendly cult that denied Christ deity and His authority and kept people in bondage….albeit subtly. Good leadership should welcome criticism if they are genuine. We as leaders need the body of Christ to keep us in check, lest Satan injects damning heresy unawares.
Consider Jim Jones and his popularity with tens of thousands. Church leaders, politicians and even the President gave him praise… he was helping the poor and needy and starting programs for the elderly. Of course their lack of spiritual discernment was revealed when 980 men, women and children were shot or poisoned by the cult leader in Guinea in the late 70’s. Paul said “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived”.
Twenty five years later the deception in the church is greatly multiplied. It is written that a little leaven, leavens the whole lump…so it takes very little error to contaminate the whole. Rat poison is 99.98 percent nutritious…less than 2 percent is what kills the rat. So it is with satanic deception…
You are wise to mention the deceptions from the Kansas City Prophets, i.e. Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, John Wimber. Sorry to say the 99 percent of those who read your post have not taken the time to research their toxic false doctrine and satanic influence. The criteria for a good church is sadly lacking today. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours studying deception in the church and the devices used…..as it is written “ not to be ignorant of Satan’s devices”. This every believer who loves the truth should do, for the purity of the truth and the honor of his worthy name.
I am committed to going thru more and more teachings from this church.. I listened to last week’s sermon and it brought up some very real concerns I have. I listened to sections of 4 others and was both touched and troubled… No doubt this church has strong suites such as evangelism, helping the poor, encouragement groups, and a lot of good teachings children’s programs and others….but how safe are they?
How well do the guard the truth? Do they warn against false teachers adequately? Are their teachings lite on scripture and heavy on human experience…thus elevating men, movements and modern methods? I will get back with you if you like, later after I have studied the matter more thoroughly. I don’t want to judge something I have not taken the time to carefully examine.
By the way I am the last poster and my name is Keith. I meant to sign off with my name, but forgot. Since I posted this I have read all the other blogs on this church..... There are a lot of hurt and dissolutioned souls posting.... those who read these blogs need to do their homework and ask questions IMO. The church I now attend allow its members to question them and even go to the elder meetings to see what is going on and to challenge practices respectfully and biblically. Does this church allow this? Twice in the last 4 years I have confronted the teachers from my new church and both times they corrected what they said the next week. Is this a likelihood at ACC?
ReplyDeleteKeith
Keith said:
ReplyDeleteThe gospel messages seems to not contradict the bible. You gotta hand it to them for extreme efforts in missions. They support other churches and help the poor among themselves....WOW. Their home group program seems unsurpassed from all the other churches I have seen. The messages were fun and exciting and moving my I add. But my background makes me consider the whole scope of a church and not just the icing. As I said before, I was actively involved with several major bible based charismatic cults before God saved me. All denied the Deity of Christ and promoted false teachers. These cults were strong in evangelism, surpassing almost all good Evangelical Churches. We had amazing stats on giving and committed followers who studied their bibles. Our teachers were second to none in talent to captivate and to move people,very impressive. But we were the enemies of God. We led people to deny the thing that mattered most;the Lordship of Christ, caring for the sheep and seeking them when they go astray, protecting them from wolves, walking in deep humility and not boosting of oneself to gain the approval from men, and loving our families, most of all, handling the Word of God with extreme care.
Question: Does this Church open up the mic to those interpreting dreams and visions and words from the Lord?
Do they promote false teachers Benny Hinn and others? Do they warn the people when they see the wolf coming?
Are their teachings full of "look at me/us and all the amazing things we do?
Are the Sermons more on personal application and very little about what the bible actually says? In other words are the teachings only 5% on bible and 95% on human experience? Is there a distracting emphasis on multimillion dollar building programs? Do those who are hurt get sought out and cared for? Do the leaders repent often and ask the people to keep them accountable?
I came to the realization that God looks on the heart. What is highly esteemed among men is many times an abomination to the Lord. Esteeming the Lord above men was humbling because in those cult years we were so proud of our spiritual superiority and our advanced knowledge walking in the spirit and operating manifested power. We had the lost knowledge of Apostles and Prophets and their key roles. We had knowledge to cast out demons and heal the sick and prophecy and speak in tongues… I became so proud that my pride was stinking up earth and heaven; all the while I thought I was humble. I was deceived to the core of my being.
Don't judge according to appearance, but judge with a discerning and righteous judgment. Don't follow the glitter and emotional drama follow Jesus. Have a discerning heart that is willing to see not only what validates you, but what exposes also. In my cult years I could not be discerning because if I found fault with those I followed then I would have to conclude that I was an idiot and a deceiver. God knows how to humble the proud and he brought me to the point where I denied all of that garbage for Christ. I walked into my first good Church, realizing that these are the people that I condemned. I was ashamed as they loved me and showed me that the glitter was not what I needed but the grace and discernment knowledge. There were no pulpit prophecies; just humble, loving people careful teaching and exposing my errors. At that point in my life I was ready to realize my folly and to get it right. That was 13 years ago. I challenge you to take it to the word of God and into prayer asking God to open up your understanding. In closing I would like to say that it does not matter how good a church looks if they are not handling Gods word well and are promoting falsehood. Be wise and walk out and find a good church, a humble church, with teachers and pastors who guard the truth and love well.
E= Wittkeith@hotmail.com
Thank you for doing this blog. I'm researching another controlling "new religious group" started by young men who appear to have sprouted from Antioch. You will have seen them mentioned on the Baylor site. Church of Wells.
ReplyDeleteAt first glance, it all seems to be very Baptist/New Life/something-or-other. They have a garden-variety faith statement that doesn't match the doctrine. It may be hybrid Antioch teachings, descendant from something else.
Keep up the good work.
I ran across your post when I was considering moving to Waco Texas.. I am not sure what to do not..my emails adress is alanlfeldman@yahoo.com so maybe you could send info directly as I am not real good at this blog stuff. Thank you so much for your comments..
ReplyDeleteThank you for the blog...it is so helpful...I have loved ones in an Antioch based Church...I am troubled by the extreme decisions they are making...have heard word of control...and am seeing firsthand the fallout of the leadership expectations...would love to talk further...we are a Christian family
ReplyDeleteAnon, control is a common Antioch Movement problem, because Antioch theology includes some falsehood, most notably over-emphasis on submission and obedience to human leaders, and de-emphasis on passages of Scripture related to spiritual abuse and standing up to abusive leadership. This is why I personally am no longer involved in the Antioch Movement. Likewise, some of my former leader friends, including a couple that planted a church with Antioch, are no longer with Antioch, due in large part to their leaders spreading the false teaching of the leaders lording it over the flock.
ReplyDelete