Hey Canterbury Roommates and Friends,
You can contact me at chilledzealot@gmail.com. You can tell I am often too slow to respond, but I will try. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think a lot of people from ACC (I was one) would dismiss criticism in general, but especially from outsiders. They shouldn't! Some of the comments you made were right on the mark.
I really believe it is impossible to be friends or be in a relationship with anyone from ACC if you are not a part of ACC. This is not because leadership prohibits it like a weird secret society type thing. It is more that the "shared experience" you spoke of and common goal of building Christ's kingdom for Him demands so much freakin' energy. There is no time for hanging out unless it is for the spiritual reason of strengthening relationships in your lifegroup, section, etc. Relationships are so void of real meaning, but the weird thing is that when you are a part of it, you think it is so purposeful because that is what you are told all the time.
I have posted here before and others have left comments about how screwed up friendships are -- lots of forced relationships with people that you don't have a lot in common with -- and once you start to get out of the leadership structure, 90 percent of those friendships disappear.
As far as dating goes… wow, where to start. It is messed up. My wife has much more to say about it than I do, but one of these days I would like to do a post on it. I did not have to interview with her "mentor" but there was a lot of other strange dynamics within the church. I would be very wary of trying to date someone that is really involved at ACC, unless you are as equally committed to some strange teachings – and even then you will likely go through much more heartache than you expected.
I would suggest if you deal with depression and feel depressed every time you visit you should really, really, really try to limit your contact there. You feel depressed because you can't live up to legalistic, non-bibilical standards, but they are preached as "non legalistic" and "early church"-type-biblical revival inducing standars. You are being told “this is the way,” “all those other denominations are full of legalistic, dead teachings,” “we want you to experience Jesus,” “it’s easy to pray for an hour a day, evangelize to a few people each day, go to 4 or 5 meetings a week, etc. when you love Jesus and are doing it through the power of the Holy Spirit.” Oh yeah, “and if you have any illnesses, Jesus heals you, if you confess you sins (and all your family’s sins), and you believe enough, and you keep asking” etc.
So the conclusion is that when you have difficult questions, or you burn out of your endless meetings, or question if the friendships are what you envisioned, or you sit in church feeling numb and everyone is bouncing up and down in worship excitement, or you have a truly debilitating illness that no one understands that isn’t healed on Prayer Night --- wait for it --- IT’S YOUR FAULT. YOU DON’T LOVE JESUS. YOU DON’T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH. YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND GOD. Because the church is telling you it’s easy if you do it abiding in Jesus. The point of my blog was to try to highlight that ACC’s methodology, experience, values, or whatever you want to call it has very little to do with the character of God.
Unfortunately, Jimmy preaches and those that attend believe that they have found “the way” to follow Jesus. So when you have found the way, you have to share it, and if others don’t believe it then they have really missed something profound. This fosters a pride and elitist attitude that is hard to describe unless you are an outsider who feels it or an insider that quit. ACCers will never, ever believe that they are prideful in their faith. I did not realize I was, and I am sorry for it.
Wednesday, December 29, 2010
Wednesday, December 8, 2010
Keep The Conversation Going
There have been some great comments on the blog so far, most of them on the previous post “Searching For Answers”. I am glad that this has been a small outlet for people that have felt the way I have over the years. CheekyMonkey had a great idea of identifying yourself with an alias so it is easier to understand who is saying what. Here are some comments that have really resonated with me because they were my experience. Thanks.
“I was even "friends" with many of the higher-ups. When I left (I moved away, but I had been gradually weaning myself off for half a year or so), I felt almost abandoned by those who I thought were friends.”
“I don't wish to speak negatively about ACC. I actually think (and maybe this is just faith in the non-religious meaning of the word) that many people associated with ACC truly believe in what they preach and really are good people at heart.”
“Many people you have come to know as friends, people you trust in and people you look up to probably won’t understand why you are pulling away. One of the administration (who I think is no longer there) asked, upon me telling her I was transferring to another school, how I was going to remain faithful (in my opinion, she was implying that leaving ACC was in effect a renunciation of my faith).”
“But there was so much hero worship at the lifegroup level. I mean, there were people who stood in awe at the fact that I talked to several high-profile individuals in the church on a regular basis. It was unsettling for me and created an odd dynamic between me and my friends.”
“Spreading Christ's love does not require the sounding of a trumpet from a mountaintop in some exotic land for all the world to hear. It is enough to truly connect with one person in pain and offer them some hope. “
“To know Jimmy better you have to understand his mentor, Robert Ewing. If you do a search on him you may find some interesting information.(Salt Sister). “ [Comment from ChilledZealot – Thanks for pointing this out. Jimmy used to talk about Robert Ewing and how it impacted him. This further confirmed my research that the Latter Rain Movement heavily influenced Antioch’s core philosophy.]
“The last time I looked the Church in the U.S. wasn't being executed. Now maybe we are a little late to get in line for Chuy's, that's only if you go to the late service, but no death, no torture, and no imprisonment. So the plan that this little Chinese couple was given by God, cannot be translated into a worldwide movement by pasty white College kids that have never paid taxes other than the sales tax on their American Eagle skinny jeans, and have only seen persecution on CNN.”
My guide for life used to be, "What would Jimmy do?" "How would Jimmy respond?"
“When HBC wouldn't do it he said he'd leave and take half the church with him. HBC decided it would be bad for the city, for the people and honestly, bad for their reputation (can you say "Don Crossland"?) for there to be such an ugly split, so they agreed to call it a "plant" and even gave ACC a chunk of change in seed money. “
“Every person I've ever talked to who has come out of the ACC thing though has blamed themselves for it on some level - usually blaming the organization, the leaders, etc. dead last. "I wasn't spiritual/discerning/faithful/dedicated/fill-in-the-blank enough" - and blaming one's self when mistreated by others is a very co-dependent mindset.”
“I mean, how can two college-age kids or just-out-of-college, not married to each other, not even necessarily legal to vote, kids be a covering one for the other?”
“All the leaders are called "Apostolic" and they are type A movers and shakers ( accept maybe Danny Mulkey). If you are gifted pastorally your are "B team" bringing up the rear. That is a huge area where ACC devastates people. Newbies come in and try to fit in. Everyone is trying to be Jimmy. Those who are teachers or gifted pastorally will try to change to fit the mold. They become frustrated because they can't be the type A "apostle" and so they eventually leave, devastated and questioning any worth they have to God the Father. “
“There, there are the C's (which stands for "Cash" - all the folks who are expected to cough up piles of money for the A's and B's to carry on their work…”
"I was so sincere and I so believed that all those hours of relationship building meant something, would mean something. And all I have to show for it is one friend -and we were never in an accountability group or discipleship group or anything. We were just plain old friends. The people from my discipleship groups? Never had time for me once we'd all moved on and up. One eventually became a zone pastor and after a long period of not returning calls actually emailed to ask for a schedule of all my open two-hour time slots in the next two weeks."
“I was even "friends" with many of the higher-ups. When I left (I moved away, but I had been gradually weaning myself off for half a year or so), I felt almost abandoned by those who I thought were friends.”
“I don't wish to speak negatively about ACC. I actually think (and maybe this is just faith in the non-religious meaning of the word) that many people associated with ACC truly believe in what they preach and really are good people at heart.”
“Many people you have come to know as friends, people you trust in and people you look up to probably won’t understand why you are pulling away. One of the administration (who I think is no longer there) asked, upon me telling her I was transferring to another school, how I was going to remain faithful (in my opinion, she was implying that leaving ACC was in effect a renunciation of my faith).”
“But there was so much hero worship at the lifegroup level. I mean, there were people who stood in awe at the fact that I talked to several high-profile individuals in the church on a regular basis. It was unsettling for me and created an odd dynamic between me and my friends.”
“Spreading Christ's love does not require the sounding of a trumpet from a mountaintop in some exotic land for all the world to hear. It is enough to truly connect with one person in pain and offer them some hope. “
“To know Jimmy better you have to understand his mentor, Robert Ewing. If you do a search on him you may find some interesting information.(Salt Sister). “ [Comment from ChilledZealot – Thanks for pointing this out. Jimmy used to talk about Robert Ewing and how it impacted him. This further confirmed my research that the Latter Rain Movement heavily influenced Antioch’s core philosophy.]
“The last time I looked the Church in the U.S. wasn't being executed. Now maybe we are a little late to get in line for Chuy's, that's only if you go to the late service, but no death, no torture, and no imprisonment. So the plan that this little Chinese couple was given by God, cannot be translated into a worldwide movement by pasty white College kids that have never paid taxes other than the sales tax on their American Eagle skinny jeans, and have only seen persecution on CNN.”
My guide for life used to be, "What would Jimmy do?" "How would Jimmy respond?"
“When HBC wouldn't do it he said he'd leave and take half the church with him. HBC decided it would be bad for the city, for the people and honestly, bad for their reputation (can you say "Don Crossland"?) for there to be such an ugly split, so they agreed to call it a "plant" and even gave ACC a chunk of change in seed money. “
“Every person I've ever talked to who has come out of the ACC thing though has blamed themselves for it on some level - usually blaming the organization, the leaders, etc. dead last. "I wasn't spiritual/discerning/faithful/dedicated/fill-in-the-blank enough" - and blaming one's self when mistreated by others is a very co-dependent mindset.”
“I mean, how can two college-age kids or just-out-of-college, not married to each other, not even necessarily legal to vote, kids be a covering one for the other?”
“All the leaders are called "Apostolic" and they are type A movers and shakers ( accept maybe Danny Mulkey). If you are gifted pastorally your are "B team" bringing up the rear. That is a huge area where ACC devastates people. Newbies come in and try to fit in. Everyone is trying to be Jimmy. Those who are teachers or gifted pastorally will try to change to fit the mold. They become frustrated because they can't be the type A "apostle" and so they eventually leave, devastated and questioning any worth they have to God the Father. “
“There, there are the C's (which stands for "Cash" - all the folks who are expected to cough up piles of money for the A's and B's to carry on their work…”
"I was so sincere and I so believed that all those hours of relationship building meant something, would mean something. And all I have to show for it is one friend -and we were never in an accountability group or discipleship group or anything. We were just plain old friends. The people from my discipleship groups? Never had time for me once we'd all moved on and up. One eventually became a zone pastor and after a long period of not returning calls actually emailed to ask for a schedule of all my open two-hour time slots in the next two weeks."
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)