There have been some good comments on the blog so far. I hope everyone reading it will contribute to the conversation. I wanted to respond to a few comments. One stating that they haven't heard the teachings that I have posted on the blog (Watchman Nee, John Wimber, Rick Joyner, etc.) taught at Antioch. I would agree that apart from Nee's Spiritual Authority, the others are not overtly preached from the front. (Although Mike Bickle spoke at World Mandate in 1998 and Rick Joyner did a video series at Highland in 1996 upon an invitation from Jimmy.) However, the teachings I outline have contributed significantly to influencing the teachings at Antioch. It was pointed out that a few of the books are sold in the book stores. I know that the training school was more influential in presenting some of these teachings. I also want to say that even though I was involved in the college group, I was very involved with other ministries as well. When I talk about senior leadership, I am specifically talking about Jimmy, Jeff, Danny, Kevin, etc. Jimmy is not a cheerleader for any specific authors or teachers that are out there. He just gets excited about anyone that has a really sensational story, especially if it involves signs and wonders and revival. Revival is the most important thing. The other stuff about intimacy with Jesus, prayer, fasting, etc. is really just means to an end. Revival. Building Christ's Kingdom for Him!
I don't know if it is still shown, but in the late 1990s, Jimmy was particularly excited about some videos that he had seen on vacation. David Hogan was the new guru. He had Power! Jimmy had his entire staff watch the videos during staff meetings and started showing them in the training school! He even got a haircut like him. You have to question the teachings of a church that get its teachings from people such as these...
Google some of his videos if you want to truly be amazed.
More on David Hogan Here:
http://www.pfo.org/exploits.htm
• He raises people from the dead;
• He is thrown supernaturally across rooms into walls;
• He multiplies food;
• He drives his vehicle underwater;
• Angels are assigned to him and have to go where he goes;
• He is miraculously transported from place to place without the aid of planes, trains or automobiles;
• He is invigorated when new demons are unleashed on him;
• A demon has tried to tear out the innards of his child;
• He has a little son who has a hanky that is so anointed he can make people fly just by shaking it at them;
• He has seen limbs grow on limbless people;
• He has seen the creation of new brains in a brainless baby;
• Jesus talks to his dog and horse;
• He has seen people fly around the room under the anointing of God.
I've really enjoyed your blog thus far and hope you will continue enlightening the Baylor/Waco community about problems you have experienced at Antioch. While I was never an official member at Antioch (attended maybe half a dozen life group meetings and a couple of Sundays), my sparse experiences were enough to cause worry.
ReplyDeleteOne laying on of hands experience, in particular, troubled me. A student came to a life group with pain in her leg from some medical condition. The life group leader decided this was a ripe opportunity to practice faith healing, so he had us all lay on hands and say a prayer. Afterward, he expected the poor girl to be already healed. When asked whether she felt better she replied, "Eh, not really." So the life group leader decided to repeat the process! Under pressure now, she gave the life group leader what he wanted to hear when he asked the second time: "Yeah, I think I feel a little bit better..." The situation was comical to most of us there, not divine.
I've provided this comment because it is my belief that life groups are a prime example of why multigenerational leadership is vital to the healthy growth of immature Christians. Otherwise you wind up in situations like the one I just described, which can be a damaging witness for Christ. I have talked with an international Chinese graduate student who had a similar experience when she was invited to Antioch by a friend. She too though it was funny, not a testament for Christ. Non-Christians will easily see through such silliness and then take our faith less seriously.
Makes sense Anon, and I tend to agree. I believe that there has likely been a combination of authentic healings and contrived "healings". In my day with Antioch-Waco, it was not unlike us to pray for someone more than once in one session, or for a while, or tell us we weren't getting healed because of some obscure generational sin of our great-great grandparent, when we were otherwise doing everything else as rightly as we could at the time.
DeleteRegarding the "senior leadership" referenced by Chilled Zealot, unless it's been too long and I'm starting to forget, he's referring to Jimmy Seibert, Jeff Abshire, Danny Mulkey and Kevin Johnson, I think.
ReplyDeleteThe stuff Chilled Zealot writes about David Hogan and other influences I largely cannot verify, although Mike Bickle / IHOP-KC influence was noticeable. Among Bickle's teachings I was exposed to at Antioch were Bickle's Song of Songs / Bridal Paradigm teaching, his book "Passion for Jesus" and some harp-and-bowl worship albums. Some of my acquaintances are said to have become intercessory missionaries with IHOP-KC, or something to that effect.
At Dwelling Place, our college ministry, we would also have some Vineyard songs in our mix of worship songs.
As for Joyner's Morningstar Ministries, the influence was -- to my knowledge -- not noticeable, but our teachings may have been somewhat compatible.
As for Chilled Zealot's claim of Jimmy Seibert getting excited about the supernatural and revival: yes, I noticed that as well -- to the extreme of being willing to (in my opinion) kinda subtly deceive and manipulate others into abandoning their purposes in attending college -- and / or in keeping in touch with their families -- to join him in Antioch's church-planting movement. I'm really sorry. It just had that appearance to me.
Oh, for clarity: the Bickle / IHOP-KC influence I encountered was mostly unofficial -- through peers -- rather than from the stage / World Mandate, at least most of the time (although Antioch-Waco's bookstore *may* have at one point carried Bickle's book, "Passion for Jesus"). I didn't start attending World Mandate until 2001, so I cannot confirm Chilled Zealot's claim that Bickle spoke at World Mandate 1998.
ReplyDeleteAnd John Wimber... he was Vineyard, a denomination that kinda started the Third Wave charismatic movement, of which Antioch is a part, I believe. They have shared theology and probably some practices. Two of their shared doctrines are the "paradigm shift" and "power evangelism". You can I think find Antioch references to these doctrines in Robert Herber's The Partying God (a book).
ReplyDeleteI think Wimber also briefly discipled Mike Bickle, around the time he was working to fix difficulties that were kinda exposed in the 1990 Gruen Aberrant Practices report (put out by the late Rev. Ernest Gruen, no relation to us as far as I know -- Gruen is a common Germanic name).
A couple of those prophets, if not most or all of them, earned controversial reputations, if they weren't discredited.
Honestly, I was floored by some of the stuff that I read in a transcript of IHOP-KC's Prophetic History I obtained from Bickle's website in 2015. The "prophets" were, I believe, some of the same players as in the Gruen report: a "prophet" accurately predicting a natural disaster as a means of "proving" his "gift", yet not warning the people and giving them a chance to repent or get out of the path of the earthquake, that has been recorded historically. And, uh, Wimber was allegedly allowed to pick the date it would occur. Um, how is that not sorcery? That really bothered me.
Another key objection I had was to the sense of violent spiritual force allegedly unleashed at Bickle's prayer request when he was said to have spoken to opponents of the Holy Laughter (Holy Trinity-Brompton / Toronto Blessing) Movement, if I recall right. And to think that this stuff was typed up and disseminated in PDF format on Bickle's website.... how is violence inflicted on Christian leaders you don't agree with Christ-like? I'm sorry, but I don't understand. It honestly struck me more as demonic than anything else. And that was the type of stuff I was reading around 2015 on Bickle's own website!
Anyway, for the record, NO, I have never seen anything quite that bad at Antioch, that I can recall -- certainly not that overt and widespread. I don't think Antioch leaders would even agree with that nonsense. But, some folks did follow Bickle.... probably folks who haven't paid attention to those claims, because a lot of their stuff at least outwardly appeared fairly tame at first glance.
One other thing: some of the seemingly more controversial teachings on Bickle's website seemed sometimes to be lacking transcripts. There was evidence suggestive that some teachings had been updated or edited, as well, possibly in response to controversy.
I have never noticed that about Antioch. Their controversies have not seemed as bad. But Bickle did at one point have some influence, just as I think John Wimber, his colleague C. Peter Wagner and the Vineyard / Third Wave movements have also influenced the Antioch Movement.
Antioch Waco supports Mike Bickle. The Mike Bickle scandal revolves around admissions of sexual abuse and spiritual misconduct. Mike Bickle, the founder of the International House of Prayer of Kansas City (IHOPKC), has faced credible accusations from multiple individuals.
ReplyDeleteHere are the key points about the scandal:
Sexual Abuse:
Tammy Woods, a former babysitter whose family attended Bickle’s church in St. Louis, accused him of molesting her when she was a teenager.
At least two people have claimed that Bickle sexually abused them during their teenage years.
The first public accusation came forward in October, with allegations dating back to the late 1990s.
Another woman identified as Jane Doe also accused Bickle of sexual abuse.
The church leaders publicly apologized and expressed belief in both women’s claims1.
Church’s Response:
The International House of Prayer (IHOPKC) initially faced criticism for its delayed response to the allegations.
In late December, the church announced a permanent separation from Bickle due to the initial sex abuse allegations.
An independent investigator was hired to look into the sexual misconduct claims
Bickle himself has not publicly responded to Woods’s claims.
However, he posted a signed letter on his Instagram page, apologizing to his wife, family, and the church.
Bickle acknowledged his past sins and inappropriate behavior, expressing deep grief over the pain caused by his actions
In summary, the scandal involves serious admissions of sexual abuse within the context of Bickle’s leadership at IHOPKC.
Jimmy Seibert loves Mike Bickle, the founder of the International House of Prayer (IHOPKC), a prominent charismatic Christian ministry, faces confessions of sexual misconduct. Here's a breakdown of the scandal:
ReplyDeleteMultiple Accusations: Several women have accused Bickle of inappropriate behavior, including kissing and sexual touching. One accusation involves a minor.
Timeline of Events:
The allegations became public in late 2023.
An internal investigation by IHOPKC concluded that Bickle likely engaged in "inappropriate behavior" and "clergy misconduct."
Some alleged victims and outside Christian leaders have criticized the investigation for lacking independence.
More accusations surfaced in 2024.
Bickle's Response: Bickle admits to some inappropriate behavior with two adult women but denies any abuse.
This scandal has significantly impacted IHOPKC's reputation and leadership.